North America

We’re crossing the Atlantic to explore North America, from the bright lights of the USA to Canada’s wilderness and Mexico’s rich history and culture. Joined by special guest Jenny, the team share their favourite experiences from across the continent, swap travel tips, and discuss why there’s never been a better time to plan a trip.

There’s a twist on this week’s Deal Challenge as Allie builds Aaron the ultimate North American itinerary, fitting the USA, Canada and Mexico into one unforgettable holiday. We also look at new EU passenger rights that could make flying a little easier, uncover one of the most chilling archaeological discoveries ever made beneath Mexico City, and round things off with three facts to reveal next week’s destination.

In this episode

Travel State of Mind – What the new EU airline passenger rights mean for travellers, from cabin bags to family seating.

The Deal Challenge – Can you build the ultimate North American adventure, visiting the USA, Canada and Mexico in a single trip?

Destination Deep Dive – Jenny, Gee and Allie share their favourite destinations, travel stories and tips from across North America.

Don’t Go Alone – The terrifying discovery of the Aztec tzompantli beneath Mexico City and what it revealed about the ancient capital.

Destination Unknown – Three facts to guess next week’s destination

Allie's Ultimate West Coast Adventure

3 weeks · 3 countries · ~4,500 miles. Fly into Cabo San Lucas (Mexico), fly home from Calgary (Canada). Two border crossings, four US states, two Canadian provinces — desert, Pacific coast, volcanoes and glaciers.

Best time to go: Late June to mid-July. It gets better the further north you go, and it's peak orca season in the San Juans.

The route, day by day

Act 1 — Baja California, Mexico
- Day 1 · Cabo San Lucas — boat to the Land's End arch.
- Day 2 · Todos Santos — art town; lunch at Hotel California (order the tequila).
- Day 3 · La Paz — malecón, seafood, whale sharks/sea lions (seasonal).
- Day 4 · Baja desert → Tijuana — drive Highway 1, drop the car, walk the border at San Ysidro, Trolley into San Diego. (Maybe skip Tijuana as the FCDO are currently advising against travel there)

Act 2 — Southern California
- San Diego — zoo, Balboa Park, fish tacos; morning hop to Tijuana's Zona Río.
- → LA on the Pacific Surfliner. LA (2 nights, no car): Walk of Fame, In-N-Out, Griffith at dusk, Venice Beach, Sunset Blvd.
- → San Francisco on the overnight Coast Starlight.

Act 3 — California
- San Francisco — Alcatraz (book ahead), Fisherman's Wharf, Bubba Gump.
- Yosemite (2 nights) — Half Dome, Glacier Point, Vernal Falls (permit needed).
- → Point Reyes → Mendocino up Highway 1.

Act 4 — Oregon
- Oregon Dunes → Crater Lake (rim drive + Cleetwood Cove Trail) → Portland (Kennedy School, Powell's Books, Voodoo Doughnut).

Act 5 — Pacific Northwest
- Mount St Helens → Seattle (2 nights): Pike Place, Chihuly, Space Needle, Fremont Troll → San Juan Islands orca watching.

Act 6 — Canada
- Vancouver (2 nights) (eTA in advance) → Sea to Sky → Whistler → Kamloops → Banff (2 nights) + Icefields Parkway → Calgary, fly home.

Book in advance

Alcatraz ferry · Yosemite permit · Canada eTA · USA ESTA

The numbers (for two)

Flights ~£2,900 · hire cars ~£1,500–1,900 · trains £200–300 · accommodation £3,500–4,000 · activities £600–800 · food & fuel £3,000 → Grand total ~£11,000–12,500.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello. Hello. Welcome back to the Departure Lounge. We are on episode three now. Continuing to talk about nonsense and get everyone holiday ready. Don't know if we've been successful with that so far.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

I think we've talked enough nonsense.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Yeah, oh definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um so my name's Aaron. Um today we are we're moving on from the countries. We've just we need to get through the planet quicker, so we're gonna do a whole continent today. Love it. Okay. Yeah, go big or go home. Um Ali, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:30

I'm good. Thank you for asking. Yes, how are you? All right. You've had a holiday since we uh I have actually, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Went to our Greece.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Xanti.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Zakinthos. And actually they called it Zakinthos, the captain called it Zakinthos on the plane.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

I'm the captain now.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Um Xanti.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Gee, you've also been on the holiday.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

I have. We're we're jet setting, aren't we? Where did you go? I went to Switzerland. Got back this morning.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

This morning.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

I'm feeling it. Yeah. This morning.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

It's currently 10.08am.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

It wasn't it wasn't too bad to be fair. I got home at like 1am. So yeah, slept. It was a hot one, but managed to get a little bit rested. Yeah, it was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

So if you fall asleep midway through this, we'll know why.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Yeah, if I go a bit quiet, just give you another little snore, Air Small snore in the background.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Excellent. Um we've also got a special guest with us today, Jenny.

SPEAKER_04 1:23

Why hello? Let's go.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Who are you and why are you here, please?

SPEAKER_04 1:26

I am Jenny. And I'm here because you invited me. And I like to travel to the continent of North America. She's just only specifically there.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

That's the only place she'll go. Basically.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

To be fair, I feel like every holiday she's been on has been there.

SPEAKER_04 1:39

Yeah, right, okay. Actually, I've been on other holidays.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Not too much to my knowledge, yeah. Well, the World Cup's on.

SPEAKER_04 1:45

World Cup sports.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

The World Cup, and I could not be more excited.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

You seem so excited. I just been walking around the office.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

One of them.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

One of them, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Um it's my favourite colour, actually.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

So patriotic.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Yeah. Um, but I thought maybe before we actually talk about North America, um, there has been a bit of a development in Europe for the travel industry.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

There has.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Um good news, I think. Um you wouldn't think it about the matter of debate, it's no, but also what interestingly is that the only people that don't seem to like it are the airlines.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

I did see again our friend Michael O'Leary. Yes. Mr. Ryanair. Mr. Ryanair, yes, not happy.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

No, I think he described it, quote, as quote, gobbledygook. Oh, unquote.

SPEAKER_06 2:34

Um, it's very um strong appeal to wording, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Um so yeah, for context, the European Parliament have voted to improve passenger rights, which obviously annoys Ryanair. Yeah. I mean, who wants rights? Well, quite overrated. Um so yeah, but basically should first say that all the rights that we already have. I say we people who travel air travel within the EU have are being maintained, but we're getting some new ones. Um the big one I think is um luggage. So we're keeping a standard carry-on, which is the one that you put under the seat in front of you, which you get it's like personal luggage. Yeah, right. So, and that's currently is free and will remain free. Um, and then they are making it so that your cabin bag, or what they describe as a trolley bag, which I guess is the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Has anyone ever called it a trolley bag? I've never heard it called a trolley bag, you can't get your trolley bag.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Yeah, it's giving like like Nana, the post office the cost of that has to be included in the fare as standard. Okay, but um they're making it so that you can opt out of that if you want a cheaper fare, because obviously what is gonna happen then is that the standard airfare is probably gonna go up in price, which may look a bit like scary at first, but actually I think once you've compared it to other airlines, it's easier to see which the cheapest one is because you know.

SPEAKER_04 4:01

But also controversially, as someone who always travels with a trolley bag, um, there's already no space.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 4:08

So surely that's going to impact that. So what happens when they then have to put it in the underneath the bag?

SPEAKER_00 4:15

So it'll be like the old way. Like I remember when I'm sure before, like years ago, the cabin bag used to be included as well. Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Although I think years ago people didn't used to take quite so big bags. Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

But yeah, what would happen is everyone would like race to get on board the flight first so that their bag wouldn't get put in the hold. Um, so I mean what we'll see then, I imagine, is higher costs for like the premium priority boarding. Yeah, priority boarding.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

And that's a good point. Um so it is a good thing. Like, how many times have you gone to look for a flight and you're like, oh lovely, I can fly to Madrid for £15, and then you get to it and you add a bag and it's like, oh wait, this is costly the same as what it would have been if I'd yeah, like I hate I hate that.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

It might help with the decision paralysis that we were talking about on the recurring theme. Yeah, because at least you can see off the bat, yeah vaguely, yeah, this is what the price is. Yeah, but I just hope it doesn't set a precedent that oh, this is the price of flights, and then they sneakily make the reduction fee if you don't want to take it just like less than that.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

I think they'll certainly find other things to charge us for to make up for it, like you know, like the the with the priority boarding, that's gonna be the big thing that everyone wants.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

But then if everyone has it, just like everyone's priority, then the same boat again.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Yeah, you're better off staying in the not priority queue because we'll get through quicker.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

If they like limit how many priority boardings that they could sell. I mean they'd have to, surely.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Well there'll be like different tiers then purchased it.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

But also the priority priority boarding.

SPEAKER_04 5:52

If it's done in boarding in group, it that that will change your seat price, won't it? Because then everyone will be trying to get on the first group of seats.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Whereas I always pick the cheap seats at the back that are closest to the toilet. Yeah. Which I think I don't know why people don't choose those seats to be.

SPEAKER_04 6:07

You're more likely to have a rotor yourself if you pick those seats.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:11

But I don't want it too close to the loo.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

So the other big thing that's changing is that if you're travelling with a child under 14, that child will have to be seated next to you for free. So they weren't they're no longer able to charge you to pick your child's seat, which I actually think is a crazy thing that like what the hell?

SPEAKER_02 6:29

That's why.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Like can you imagine like having like being a child and sitting next to some random stranger on a f on a flight? Like, I'd be terrified.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Yeah, it's weird that that was ever a a thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Well, apparently so I was looking into it as part of this. Um I think it's only a thing on Ryanair, and they're actually being investigated for whether or not this is fair practice to Oh really? Yeah. Okay, interesting. Because it's kind of like you can't really separate a child from its guardian. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Like again, well, it used to be in the days of flying when you booked, you didn't know there's no paying for your seats. Like you were allocated your seats, and that wasn't an issue.

SPEAKER_04 7:09

Book together. Like, presumably you want to sit together. Yeah. Yeah. I hate getting on any of those like whiz air flights or something, and you suddenly sit down, and the person next to you is like, My husband's three rows back, and they've sat aside. And you're like, I've just sat down, like give me a break.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yeah, I'm very I am happy about the the kids in because it's stressful enough flying with a child anyway, and then you get on and there's like some old lady that's like glaring at you. It's like, trust me, I am I'm not happy about this situation either. Like we'll we'll all get through this together. Yeah. So it's nice for the one less bit of stress.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

It is, yeah, it's very tough. Um should point out though that these rules only apply to UK travellers if we're flying from an EU airport.

SPEAKER_05 7:51

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Or if you're flying into the EU on a European airline. So if you're flying to the EU on a UK airline or a UK subsidiary of an EU airline, then those rules won't apply. So, like EasyJet, Ryanair, which I guess technically isn't EU.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Like I say, Ryanair must be an EU.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

It is EU, but obviously when you fly from the UK on Ryanair, it's a UK subsidiary. Um, they won't apply. So at the very least, on your flight back, you'll benefit from those rules. Um, but the transport secretary has hinted that these reforms might be adapted to UK law as well.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

I mean, how long who knows how long they're going to be the transport secretary secretary for? Well, quite on his way out.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

We'll get another one. Like, I'm like I say, I'm happy with these changes. I think they benefit travellers. Like, I'm not too fussed that Ryanair is angry about it because he wants to charge people to use the toilets.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

I feel if Ryanair is angry about it, that's probably you know it's a good thing for a customer.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Yeah, that's very true. Right, so off with the EU. We're talking about North America today. Yeah. Um, because of the World Cup. Obviously, by North America we mean Mexico, Canada, and the USA. I haven't been to any of those countries, so I'm probably just gonna sit back. That's why basically why Jenny's here. Um, yeah, I'll just shut up for most of today. I won't. Um, but we'll see what happens. But the deal challenge, it's time for that, and it's a bit different today because of uh well, one because we wanted to do it a bit differently, and two because of a uh organizational foible on my part. Um so only Ali has been able to participate in the challenge today, which is fine. So we're gonna do it, we're gonna do a rating out. Well, so I don't know if we should be able to give you a point because it's not it's not G's fault.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Alright.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

So you just judge. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna both of us will do a rating out of ten. Nice. And then I don't know. We'll maybe give you a point, maybe not. I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

We can forgo points this time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Well, there's still points up for grabs at the end.

SPEAKER_02 9:55

I'm happy to maybe we'll add we'll add the points.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

So there'll be two points up for grabs on this for this challenge. We'll move those two points to the quiz at the end. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 10:05

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

So that's like all to all to play for at the end. I like it. Um like I say, Jenny will be guest judging this week. Um, and we'll be rating your trip out of ten.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Um, so how do you think you did?

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Um I was quite excited about this one. Um, it's a special interest of mine, uh, I would say, North America. So I felt like uh I actually struggled to choose what to do. I feel like there's so many different options of what you can what you can do. Um but I think what I've chosen is yeah, I feel like if I was saying someone if it's the first time you're going to North America, I feel like this is a pretty solid, a pretty solid um itinerary. Um I've gone I've gone three weeks and I've gone all three countries. Okay. Um I think if you were gonna do two weeks, I would limit it to two, otherwise I think you would just you'll never be anywhere long enough to really um enjoy it, I'd say. Um so yeah, we've gone we've gone all three. Um so it's gonna be a West Coast adventure. Um I think that's the best way if you're gonna do all three and not so there's no there's no flying in between places on this one, you'll fly in of one place, fly out of another place, and no flying in the middle. Yeah. Um I think if you were gonna do other parts of America, Mexico, Canada, you'd probably need to fly, fly between them rather than drive. But this this one's you can do it driving and trains actually. Um I think is kind of quite an overlooked um method of of travel. Um so yeah, you'll start in we're gonna start in Mexico. We're gonna start in um Cabo San Lucas. Uh um Jenny's a country f music fan, so yeah, uh often appears in country music. Um it's the tip of the Baja California. So Baja California is the part that kind of is like a peninsula that comes down off of um California. Um so at the very tip of that, you'll fly, you can fly in there, which is quite nice. You got um you got sea both sides that way, the Pacific um on one side, and then um uh the Sea of Cortez is on the other side. Is that no?

SPEAKER_00 12:10

It's giving dirt or door.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

It is giving dirt or door. Mexico's very own dirt or door. Um and then you're gonna drive um north to a place called Todos Santos, um, which is a Bohemian art town. And what's the most interesting about this is that there is a very famous hotel there. Do you want to guess what famous hotel might be in this place?

SPEAKER_00 12:28

In Mexico.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Um, I can't say it, it's not it's not appropriate for our audience. It's not that one then.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Okay. Think music. Think a popular song.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Hotel California.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Hotel California. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Do I get a point for that?

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Uh yeah, do you get a point for that? So um it's in debate whether this is the Hotel California.

SPEAKER_03 12:48

How long are we staying there? In Todosantos. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Just one night.

SPEAKER_03 12:53

You said two people.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

I've invited myself onto a trip. Because it's one room sharing between two people. So fine.

SPEAKER_04 12:59

How long am I staying there?

SPEAKER_01 13:01

You've been staying in this one for one night. Okay, nice. Um, it has a signed Eagles guitar on the wall. They have uh the Hotel California branded tequila.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Oh I don't like tequila, but when in Mexico.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Oh, you gotta have some tequila in a term. Mezcal. Try Mezcal instead.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Is that where they put the worm in it?

SPEAKER_01 13:17

No, no, no. That's tequila's got the worm in it. Mezcal, I think, is like a smokier kind of um it's very good.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

I'm not gonna say no if it's if it's in a margarita.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Yeah, it's it you can hear it. You can check in, but you can never leave. Um that sounds very unbelievable. I mean such a lovely place. Thank you. Okay, so that reference was lost on these two over here.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

I got the hotel though.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

You got the hotel, so you got the point for that, but you didn't know any of the lyrics apparently. Um so you're gonna stay there and then we're gonna go, we're gonna drive um north to La Paz, um, which again is a nice coastal um city. Um, it's got a beautiful waterfront, great seafood. Are you seafood fans?

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Absolutely not. I love seafood. I like fishing. Benny's gonna be happy here. You can just not have tequilo and not have seafood.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

What about like fish tacos?

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Yeah, fish tacos.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Yeah, that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Yeah, about seafood.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

No, but seafood is more for me, is more like like a slab of fish. No, like like shellfish or like or crustaceans.

SPEAKER_04 14:16

Yeah, like a fish taco.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

It's because it's like fish fingers in a taco, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 14:20

Yeah, okay, yeah. How to ruin the idea of a fish taco. Fish fingers and a backup.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

No, no, not exactly no. Yours can be though. Yeah. Maybe you can order it for the kids' menu. Um here you can go swimming with whale sharks in the bay. Wow. Um there's also some sea lion collalies that you can go and see. Um oh, by the way, you picked up a car in Cabo, just so you know. So you've got car for this part. That I assumed, yeah. Yeah. Um, drive up Highway One, there's got loads of uh cacti, um, occasional roadside taco stand for your fish finger tacos. Um and then you're gonna arrive in Tijuana, um, which I didn't know until I researched this that actually Tijuana and San Diego are basically one big metropolitan area. So it's like one metropolitan area that's split. I did not know that. Border. No. So that was um every day is a school day. Um you're gonna drop the car there because you can't important to know when you're driving, you can't, well, you can get special permission sometimes to drive a higher car across the border. But so you'll drop the car in Tijuana, and then um actually experience is there's uh you can walk across the Mexican border, US Mexican border. So Paris, one of the busiest uh border crossings or the busiest land border crossing in the world. Apparently a hundred thousand people cross it every single day.

SPEAKER_05 15:37

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Yeah, so some people live in commute across um commute across the border.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Yeah, that's wild.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Yeah, um, and then yeah, so you go across the border and then you're in you're in San Diego. Nice. So um San Diego has a nice uh trolley, so you can hop on the trolley and you'll be in downtown.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Is that a tram? Yes, okay, yeah. We could go to the zoo and see Marcel from friends.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

Yes, I say that is one of the things. Uh so San Diego, I think, um, of California is probably one of the most overlooked um places in California. I think it's not the the first place people think of. Think of like an LA or a San Fran. Um so but San Diego is lovely again. Um on the coast there. Yeah, one of the best zoos in the world. So I have been to the zoo. It was a very good zoo. It's a good zoo. It's a good zoo. So we're gonna go north to LA, but we're not gonna drive. We are gonna get the um the Pacific Surfliner, and it's the Amtrak's um coastal train service. Um, and one of the one of the most beautiful train journeys um in the world, I think you go up the up the coast, um, and then you don't have to worry about driving, you could just sit back, relax, take it in. Um arrive in LA. Um, I wouldn't recommend driving in LA anyway. No. You probably kind of really don't need to, so stay in um downtown LA. Um got a couple of nights there. Obviously, you're gonna want to do Hollywood Boulevard, Walk of Fame. You are, you're gonna want to do it, okay? Don't do this Manshiny.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

I want to do the haunted house tour.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

The haunted house. Oh, you mean the hotel?

SPEAKER_04 17:04

Oh, you're talking about the one with the girl in the water tank. Yes. And and this is no true crank.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

I stayed down the road from there. Yeah, that sounds about right. Yeah. Have you not you haven't heard of this? No. Oh, yeah, there was a there was someone that was um Elisa Lamb. People were drinking the water, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Yeah, so she she disappeared while staying at this hotel, and it was like a couple of weeks, and they didn't know they couldn't find her. And then the the guests started complaining that the water was brown and tasted funny, and they checked the water tank and she was she'd been in there the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

So this was this would be perfect for the don't go alone segment.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Yeah, yeah, it would have been actually bonus.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Bonus, bonus, don't go alone.

SPEAKER_04 17:45

They don't know how she got there. There's loads of conspiracy theories because to get into the water tank, you'd have to go up a ladder. So either she went up the ladder and went in, or someone carried her up the ladder. Oh gosh.

unknown 17:56

Very weird.

SPEAKER_04 17:56

Good, good, like good Netflix documentary.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

You're gonna have to have lunch at the In and Out Burger. That's the old thing. Okay, yeah. Yeah, if you've ever had one, but yeah. Um then we're gonna go obviously, you can do a tour of the Hollywood Hills, see if you can see some celeb spotting. Um up to the Griffith Observatory. So that's where have you seen kind of like La La Land?

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Yeah, no, but I've been there in GTA 5.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

In perfect, there we go. So the observatory, obviously, one of the best views over um downtown LA. Um, day two, you're gonna do kind of like Venice Beach. Um, so there's a view of the boardwalk there, there's like outdoor gyms, street performers, um, and Sunset Boulevard.

unknown 18:37

No.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

No Sunset Boulevard. Where's the pier? Uh the Santa Monica.

SPEAKER_04 18:43

Santa Monica.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Oh, are we going there?

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Um yeah, we can't do it. It's all they're all kind of connected. Yeah. Right. Um if you've got time, the original Disney is there in Anaheim. So then LA's done, move on from LA. Uh we're gonna go back on a train. Now we're gonna go north to there's an overnight service that goes up the coast past Santa Barbara, um, and you're gonna end up in San Francisco.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Lovely.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Lovely, lovely San Francisco. Um when you're in San Francisco, things to do. So we have to do Alcatraz.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Um fantastic tour, get a boat across. Um absolutely loved it. It was really um fun. I think like Al Capone um was famous for being there. The bird man of Alcatraz. It's genuinely like a really, really cool.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Isn't it like haunted?

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Um, probably it's old, isn't it? There's like an audio tour, and I think it's narrated by like former guards and inmates and that. So it's it's a very cool tour. Um, book it in advance though, because it does get very popular.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Well, I'm sure you've already organised that for you.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Oh, right, yeah, so this is definitely all booked. Um in the mainland, you want to do Fisherman's Wharf, it is very touristy. Um, if there's one thing you should know about me, is that I bloody love a tourist trap and I bloody love a gift shop. So um in your element.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

You don't strike me as really no.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Oh wow, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'm learning so much. I'm not I'm not like, oh, we must find this really niche um little neighbourhood. Like, no, take me to where the most kiss me quick, I'm gonna buy a t-shirt, I'm gonna buy the lot.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

You want that like kitsch sort of tacky vibe.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Yeah, and if there's like a mini golf, then sign me up. I'm I'm in. I'm there. Um so Fisherman's Wharf, um, it's Pier 39, um, it's where you're gonna find um there's like a sea lion um colony. I've heard that they smell. They do smell. Yeah, you can definitely smell them, but they're um quite fun. And uh there, which I was there when I was there, hopefully still there. Bubba Gump shrimp as uh a restaurant on the Fisherman's Wharf Bubbles. Forest gum Forest Gump.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Have you seen Forest Gump? I have seen Forest Gump.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

The shrimp, the shrimp boat. Oh and obviously he was Bubba Gump. So there is a uh restaurant chain in America, Bubba Gump. Bubba Gump. Oh my god, shrimp um tongue twister is yeah, and I I was there, I'm t-shirt, hat, you know, all for it. I don't even like shrimp, but um I was I was there and they do like a like a soup, like this bread bowl type dishes.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Oh, I'd l I'd be interested in that as long as it wasn't like a chowder.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Uh probably is a chowder. Oh, you probably have options. I've had them and I don't like chowder either.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

I just have the bread bowl.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

You just have the bread bowl to sleep. With some fish fingers in, right? Yeah. Sounds fine. Um, but yeah, it's very touristy, but um please just embrace that. Um and then I go head to mission district in the evening, and you'll see Golden Gate, um, obviously, um at sunset. Um and then it says here, get an early night because tomorrow we're driving to Yosemite.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Oh do we have time in San Francisco?

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Um, you've got a day.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Because I would like to visit the house from Charmed.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

And the house from Mrs. Doubtfire.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Um I think that they uh the Mrs. Doubtfire is that is it like all round Lombard Street or somewhere around there? Making up. There's also like the the really zigzaggy one. Yeah. I mean that I I like San Francisco, but it Is a city and I don't I I never find myself like drawn to staying in cities that that long.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

No, I I find them a bit overwhelming.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

Yeah, and I so I feel like I mean I if you need to be you don't have to go to Bubba Gumps.

SPEAKER_04 22:13

You know, if if you've got other things you'd rather gumps for dinner, you just that's it. Look at the houses on the way, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Yeah. This is the this is the trip of a lifetime, so there'll be there'll be no there'll be down downtime, you're gonna be go, go, go. Okay. Yeah, no. Um I'm sure you can fit it in. I don't know where they are in San Francisco.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

No, me neither.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

Um we can we can look that up for you. Are you outdoorsy people?

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Uh I don't mind being outdoors. Yeah. Perfect. I'd rather be outdoors than indoors.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Well, that this is gonna be this is gonna be amazing for you then. Yeah. Um so we've given you kind of two days there because um it is genuinely um stunning. Um there's half dome, which I think you'd recognise. It used to be like one of the Mac windows um default wallpapers. Really? Yeah, yeah, it's like this view, it was like a sunset view of the half dome, and and you'll see it. Um I think it's El El Capitan that you can climb up. Um I don't suggest you do the climbing.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

That's the that's the mountain that the woman fell off. It is this is really taking another dark turn.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Yes, the other big show. Uh, do you believe that was El Capitan in um Yosemite? Um there's like kind of uh waterfall hikes that you can do. Um yeah, so there's it's quite nice. It's kind of like the the lower part of it is kind of like all like kind of foresty. There's like some nice foresty walks, um, and then there's yeah, more um hikes that you can do depending on your activity level and what you what you like. Um but yeah, spend some time there and just get amongst nature. Um see some bears. I don't think there are but maybe there are bears in the cemetery. They're gonna be to be fair. But like there is Californian, the bear is on the Californian flag, so that could make sense.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

I feel like I saw someone visit a couple weeks ago. There are no bears. No grizzlies, but there are black bears.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

By the way, you did pick up a car in San Fran, you drove there. Okay. Um that same car is now gonna take you up the Pacific Coast Highway, so you're gonna drive north. Um, you'll probably reach Coast Van Point Reyes, which has got like a really um awesome lighthouse. Um, it's kind of really um nice, and then you're gonna drive up Route 1 to Mendocino. Um I th I think that's how you pronounce it, but Route One's a kind of stunning highway drive, like it's all the Pacific on your left as you drive up. Um so we're gonna leave we're gonna leave California behind you, um, and you're gonna you're gonna head into Oregon. Um, and you're gonna the first place you're gonna get is the Oregon Dunes. Um so there's a sand dunes kind of like national park there. Um and you wouldn't really expect it, it's like literally the sea, and then it is like this massive sand dunes. It's like Brancan area. Uh I've not been to Grancanaria, but it's like the mass blow mass. And then it's just the sea. Yeah. Yeah. So like that, um, yeah, you can I think you can hire dune buggy or you can kind of walk the.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Can you do what's it called when you like surf? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 25:00

The sand surfing. I don't I'm not sure. I didn't I didn't look at it.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

I'd give it a go.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

He'd rather be outdoors than indoors.

SPEAKER_04 25:07

Yeah, apparently so.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

I've been windsurfing before.

SPEAKER_04 25:10

You have, but that's a water.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Yeah, and I do actually hate sand. I think it's an awful thing.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

After there, we're gonna cut inland a bit through the forest to a place called Crater Lake. Um so Crater Lake is the deepest lake in the United States. Um, it's 600 metres deep. It was formed when a volcano um collapsed in on itself. Um what's interesting about it is there is no there's no rivers into it, there's no rivers out of it. So it is purely uh rainwater. Wow. Um, but like your pond. Is your is your pond 600 metres deep?

SPEAKER_00 25:43

No, it's about 50 centimetres deep.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Perfect. And this might be a little bit more um uh impressive. Um so yeah, so you can drive around the entire um room of it. I think it's about 33 miles around. There's a really cool um kind of like old lodge that you can stay in. Um, and then there is a walk you can do down to I think it's the the Cleatwood Co Trail. So it descends all the way from the top of the room to the to the lake. Um, and it is absolutely fabulous. I've I've done it. Um, but it it did almost make my father and I fall out on the way back up as I was like, please go alone. This you know, it was like one of those ones where you're walking up and it's like everybody needs to just look after themselves. Yeah, own pace, just it was like one of those sort of situations. But when you go down the bottom, you can jump in the lake and it is like super clear. Wow, um, it's awesome, it's absolutely fantastic. So after Crate Lake, we're gonna go north to Portland. Um again, well, I think one of the most underrated cities in America. Um, they've got a lovely sign in Portland, keep Portland weird. Um that should tell you enough about it. So you're uh you're gonna stay in a really cool place in Portland, which is called the um it's McMeneman's Kennedy's School. So it's an old school house that's actually been converted to a hotel. So um you stay in the hotel rooms, there's uh like a movie theatre there. Um they do lots of events, and it's all kind of like tons of, they've got lots of local artists that do murals. So McMeneman's is a bit of a thing throughout Oregon. It's lots of um, they've got like a breweries, hotels, and that. So you'll see them everywhere. Um, but it's all got these like really awesome, surreal kind of um murals and that painted. Um, so yeah, it's a really it's a really cool um like bit of a different sort of hotel to stay in, of a different experience. Um and then when you're in Portland, you're gonna want to go to Powers Books. So Powers Books is um the largest independent bookshop in the world. Um, it's got new and used books. You will go in there, like there's literally a map. When you go in, you get given a map to go and find everything. Um, and just yeah, give yourself time. It's fantastic. You'll you'll come out with books and you're like, oh my have I bought this? I didn't even know I wanted this book on something really random. But um, and I think there's like cafes and that in there as well. Um, it's like yeah, multiple floors, very cool. Um, and then another thing that I would recommend you do is there's a place called Voodoo Donuts, so they're famous donuts.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

Lovely.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Um, it's got like a pink fronted building, um, and they've got uh like a bacon maple um donut. Oh, that sounds good. Um yeah, and then we've got uh the voodoo doll, which is a raspberry donut with a steak of pretzel steak, not steak. Yeah, like vampire steak.

SPEAKER_06 28:20

Steak, not steak, steak.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

We're gonna go back out to nature, back out into a bit of a bit of geography. So we're gonna go to Mount St. Helens.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Oh, I hope it doesn't go off.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

I don't think you're at risk of that. No. Um I think it's dormant.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Um, but yeah, so Mount St. Helens. Um, so in 1980, obviously, it erupted. Um, and there was a massive landslide, massive um pyroclastic blast. Basically, the side of the mountain just collapsed and just it blew um outwards. Um, sadly, I think like 57 people were killed. Um, and like uh 200 square um miles of florist will have flattened because the trees are all just like pancaked. Um so there's a really cool there's uh like a ridge observatory that you go to and you can see you can see the the um the volcano with the sides, craters you can still see where the crater blew out and all the trees are sort of so it didn't come out of the top, it came out of the side. No, so it didn't, it it um it got this like big bulge on the side of it, and then when it went, it just went off the side and like a big landslide down. So yeah, rather than going up like you would have expected, it went sideways.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Do you ever I always uh like think of volcanoes as like pimples on the face of the planet?

SPEAKER_01 29:31

That's like a pretty good analogy for them to be fair. It is the magma or whatever, it builds up behind it and it's it's held in and then it goes. Pops out. Yeah, yeah. After that, we are going to um Seattle, where you will be sleeping. Sleeve sleepless. Seattle, yeah. Um again, Seattle is uh is a fantastic city um on the sea, but there's kind of see the mountains in the background. Um go to Pike Place. So Pike Place is a marketplace downtown. Um it's where the home of the first Starbucks was. Um so you can go and do that. But it's uh it's a really cool farmer's market, wander through, and you'll see um seafruit again. Um then we will go to um the space needle. So it's like uh nice. Yeah, you can see the classic um tower, so you can go up the space needle, get absolutely fantastic views. But actually, one of my favourite things to do when you're around there is down below the Space Needle is um the I'm gonna get this wrong pronouncing. Is that I think it's the Kilhooli garden, and um he is a famous uh glass sculptor. Um so he does these just absolutely fantastic glass sculptures. They almost kind of look imagine like a coral reef or like a flower garden made out of glass. Wow. Um and it's kind of that. So it's he has this um yes a garden garden below it. Um so the garden's got all these big glass works, um, and then yeah, obviously the space needles right there. Um, and then um one that I I recommend is there's a kind of a little bit more of an unknown. So there's the Fremont, uh, if we go to Fremont, which is a neighborhood, there is a troll under a bridge. So I don't know if you've seen um Ten Things I Hate About You.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

I don't I don't know it from that, I know it from Once Upon Time.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Oh, really? Isn't that? Yeah, so yeah, famous from that. Um there's yeah, there's kind of troll sculpture under a bridge. Um, and it's pretty cool. And Fremont's pretty cool as well. It's kind of like that sort of like hipstery coffee shop sort of uh street art type of vibe. Um, and then um what I would you recommend you do from Seattle is you go whale watching. I don't know if that's yes that would be interesting. Yep, so you can go to the San Juan San Juan Islands. Um, so yeah, get a boat tour, um, go and see the Aukopods. Um, and I think I've I think I've said about kind of August time for you to do this, and that's actually a really good time for whale watching. So you should should be guaranteed some whales. Um, and then get ready. We're gonna leave North America at North America behind. You're gonna leave the United States with America behind. Um, you're gonna hop on a train again, not wanting to take cars across the border. So uh from four hours from Seattle, you'll end up in Vancouver. Lovely. Lovely. Um, I'm very biased, but Vancouver is my favourite place in Canada, if not the entire world. Um, so um Vancouver, again, city, you've got the Pacific um ocean, and then you've got um the north shore of Vancouver is a mountain, so it goes into the starts going into the Rockies, Grass Mountain. Um, so yeah, Vancouver's an absolutely fantastic city. Um you're gonna head to Granville Island Public Market, so it's this little kind of it's like yeah, little island under a kind of the bridge um in the bay there, and um again, fresh, fresh food. Um, once got a most amazing slice of pizza, and then I walked out the door and a seagull immediately immediately stole it from me. I was like, what did that sign on the door say? Oh, beware of seagulls. Walked out the door, whoop, entire pizza was called play. So do watch out for the seagulls at least.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

That's a universal experience. Yeah, but that's it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

And I was like, you just like feel a bit of a pleb, just didn't they? I bet everyone in the place where you bought it was like, oh my god, oh my god, it's a sign of the door. What if it's not what if what if the seagulls aren't actually real? They're remote controlled by the pizza people in order to sell more pizza. Whoa. Now we're going to the birds of the real conspiracy. They're drones, the government drones. Birds aren't real. This is an expose of uh pizza.

SPEAKER_04 33:15

Maybe the government stole it from that pizza place.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

That's it.

SPEAKER_04 33:17

Well, I went back and bought another slice of pizza, so I bet they gave it to you like a slow head shake, like just eat this one in here. You're just like shielding yourself from that.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Um it's like under a bridge. You're gonna walk onto it. Um, yeah, it is Granville Island, it's a little island. It's the um uh it's in like a little kind of like inlet bit. So the main city of Vancouver, downtown Vancouver, is on like a like a little island itself, almost like an island, like a peninsula, it's across the bay from um bridge from that. Um yeah, so you go under there. Um and then what's really nice is once you've done that, you can walk out and you walk along the seawall. So you walk into um a place called Kitsilano. Um there's really nice beaches, there's kind of bars on the beach there. Um, really cool vibe. Um, you do that, and another thing you can do in is Stanley Park. Um, it's the kind of Vancouver's equivalent of Central Park. Um highly recommend you uh hire a bike. Um I've suggested you stay in the West End Bay Shore, which is my favourite hotel in Vancouver, um, as it looks out over Stanley Park and uh across to Grause Mountain, and you can see the seaplanes taking off. Um and most hotels there because it's right by the seawall, um, by Stanley Park, you will have free bike hire. Free, free bike hire. So yep, grab grab a bike from your hotel, basically cycle round the whole um of the seawall. Um it's great. In the middle of Stanley Park, there is also an aquarium. So if you are aquarium fans, I love an aquarium. Then there is that. I particularly remember there being sea otters, which I quite was quite charmed by. Um that, and then there's some cool um like totem poles from obviously the um native population or indigenous, I should say, population. Um, and then also uh in Vancouver is uh gas town where there's a famous steam clock. So there's a uh steam clock there. Um so you're gonna want to do that.

SPEAKER_00 35:07

What's a steam clock?

SPEAKER_01 35:08

A clock that is powered by steam.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

And then it every now and then goes it goes like a like a steam. It's steam clock. Yeah, like a like just look up gas, just look up Gas Town Steam Clock. We don't need I don't need you, but a full body reenactment.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Just imagine I'm a clock and then the most famous example is the Gas Town Steam Club in Vancouver. It whistles every hour.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Yeah, and then um north of Vancouver, I say is across the bay is um Grass Mountain. So you can actually get um a ferry across and then a bus up, and then there's a gondola up there um and get amazing views down over the city. Um highly recommend that. Um and then from Vancouver, you're gonna drive, you're gonna go north, um, you're gonna go out across Lionsgate Bridge. There is no other way. There is another way, but there is no other way in my heart for you to exit. You go through Stanley Park across the most fantastic bridge. Um, you're gonna drive north across on the Cedar Sky Highway. Um, again, one of the most fantastic drives.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

Huh? This highway.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Uh it's one of the most fantastic drives you'll ever you'd ever take. Um so you go um basically north through to Whistler. So Whistler is where obviously like the Winter Olympics, when it was in Vancouver, most of the events were in Whistler.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

To see a very specific animal. Okay, what is the specific It's a hoary marmot.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

A hoary marmot?

SPEAKER_00 36:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Fantastic. I can I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

And I feel like they live in Whistler. The largest North American ground squirrel, often nicknamed the Whistler.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

Here we go.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

For its high-pitched warning issued to alert other members of the colony. Maybe that's why I thought Whistler, maybe it's not actually from Whistle or Whistler.

SPEAKER_04 36:44

They had those in Teton and it was definitely warning us not to climb up the mountain. It was right. Um but they're very cute.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

It is Whistler's most famous mascot.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

There you go. I'm getting 10 out of 10 for this trip, just for that alone.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

Yeah. Um it was it was renamed from London Mountain to Whistler because of these Alpine ground squirrels signature high-pitched morning whistles.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

The more you know.

SPEAKER_04 37:07

How do you even know about it?

SPEAKER_01 37:09

Where did that come up?

SPEAKER_00 37:10

I've worked in travel a long time.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

He's been around the he knows his ground squirrels literally.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

And if an animal is called a hoary marmot, I'm gonna remember.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

I think it's Whistler and Blackcomb. It's two mountains, and actually, it's one of the places where you can get a gondola between two mountains.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Well, that sounds terrifying, but it's actually quite fun.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

I did it in a I I think it was there. Whistler Blackcomb, I think it's pretty sure what it is. Um recommend doing that. Um, and then you're gonna go through the Rockies. Um, it's kind of like along a river canyon, you're gonna stop in Kamloops for a night. Um, I'm not sure there's that much to say about Kamloops, no offence to Kamloops, um, but kind of a nice Rockies town, and then you're gonna drive through the Rockies and arrive in Banff, which I guess is one of the most iconic places, I guess, maybe in the world. Um so Banff, we're gonna stay two nights in Banff, but you're gonna go and do some drives out from there. So Banff, the most famous hotel, is the Banff Springs, which is the Fairmont Hotel, kind of overlooks. Um so you know, if you're a bit of feeling spenny, you can um stay there from Banff. Um, you can basically go and explore the Icefield Parkway. So you go kind of drive north towards Jasper, um, and then you'll get the famous. So there's Peto Lake, which is one that looks like a wolf. Um, there's the Columbia Icefields, there's the Athabasca Um Falls. You can go up on like a glacier um truck. You can go up and they'll take you up into the glacier and you can walk around there. Um there's an just the most stunning kind of lakes in that. Um there's obviously um Moraine Lake, there's Honeymoon Lake, there is um there's I think Moraine Lake is the most famous one.

SPEAKER_04 38:46

Mini Wanker. Mini Wanker. What did you just call me?

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Um yeah, so you'll you'll basically explore all of that from from Banff. Um and then from Banff you'll you'll drive out um to Calgary. It's really it's really interesting because you'll get you in the Rockies, and then the Rockies will just stop and it'll be flat, and you'll um yeah, drive to Calgary and you'll you'll fly home from Calgary.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Isn't there like a famous rodeo or something in Calgary?

SPEAKER_01 39:13

Yeah, there is uh um Calgary Stampede. Oh sorry, yeah, Calgary Stampede. Um I'm not sure what time of year that is.

SPEAKER_04 39:20

Next next month, it's in July. Well there you go.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Maybe you'll see July be there in time for the old uh Stampede. I think it's it's difficult to price out. Uh it's something that you obviously you're never gonna book as a as a package. Um and there's it. But I I think probably 11 to 12,000 pounds.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Okay, that seems I mean for a three-week drip of a lifetime, that seems like what I would probably do.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

Yeah, I think that that's what you're gonna and and it's like if it is a drip of a lifetime, you don't wanna um you really don't want to skimp. No. Obviously, um it you would have to have multiple car hides and that, which I guess is kind of annoying.

SPEAKER_04 39:54

But um at the same time, three countries and however many states. Exactly. And that's a lot of ground.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

It's about 4,500 miles, I think it was in total. But if you know, at the end of the day, you've gone to three countries and you've seen uh some of genuinely the the best cities and the best um sites in the world, then um that's my recommendation to you.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

So I guess it's time to score it. I it would be a 10. Okay, but you were so close to that one thing that I said I really wanted to do in North America.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

I've been trying to work this out. Yeah, what is it? I've been trying to work it out.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

So I would keep the Canada section the same, but instead of driving, I would go on the Rocky Mountaineer. Oh, I'm absolutely gutted that I didn't that's uh I've got to go on this trip now and just drive past the Rocky Mountaineer.

SPEAKER_04 40:45

It's alright, you'll see it when you stay at your hotel. Yeah, but it'll be like right outside your door. You'll see it go past.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Maybe what I'll do is I'll just on my own expense book a trip back to Vancouver.

SPEAKER_04 40:54

There you go. Look.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

And then fly from there. What are your thoughts about this trip, Jenny?

SPEAKER_04 40:58

Very solid. Good God, it sounds like a lot of hours like in the car slash travelling. But I'm very partial to an Amtrak. I do like an Amtrak. I did it Fort Worth to Austin in Texas, and it was the worstly organized train I've ever been on in my life, and we were stood in 38 degrees, I was hungover, I thought I was gonna die and be hospitalized. So it didn't make my experience better. But when I got on it, I was like, this is amazing. This is no like southeastern railway. It's just like fully lying down, you can like tip it all the way back basically. Like two floors amazing.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

I love the idea of a double decker train.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Oh, fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

I don't think I've ever been on one.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

I I went on one in Chicago and the sheer excitement I got on this train, I think was like, okay, all right, calm down a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 41:45

It was like the worst organized thing though, because once they did finally arrive and we got out of the sun, because people were going on it through so many cities, they tried to group them together. Oh my god. Didn't work. Oh, I was like, please let me on this train. Please, please. But great, like fun alternatives with driving and trains, so you're not having to drive for like 12 hours a day.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

I think that in the none of these drives are as long as that.

SPEAKER_04 42:11

I think I think a solid 10. I think you were able to incorporate the entirety of like the west coast of the US, including all three countries. And I would have covered two more states which I need to go to, which is Washington State in Oregon. Well, there you go. So win-win. Sorted. And I have them into Carbo, and I want to go to Carbo.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

I kind of as soon as I saw it, I was like, Jenny's gonna want to tell me.

SPEAKER_04 42:32

You've done Cancun. I have not done Cabo.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

The other side, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 42:36

It is. It is. And that's kind of the split across the US, is you find most people on the one side go to Cancun, most people on the other go to Carbo, because obviously it's lessens the the flight time. Some people go to both, I'm not generalising, but you tend to So what's what's the total score then?

SPEAKER_00 42:52

I don't 19 out of 10. Come on, come on. I'm sorry, I can't.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

I'm still a lot of you.

SPEAKER_00 42:58

It's no.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

I'll call a friend, we'll get it, we'll get it all. No, okay, fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

Um okay, well, good job. Thank you so much. Um I don't know if you even could have topped that to be honest, G, if you were to do it.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

I've no idea how I would have approached it, especially because I've only been to one part of America. Went to Miami and Fort Fort Lauderdale. Nice. Um, but it was literally just two days either side of a cruise. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 43:26

So when I look back, I think, oh, we we've got like nice memories in, but in terms of like seeing different landscapes, another good thing about your plan is the cities, hikes, beach, you have covered every single terrain you could possibly cover.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

And I think that's what I love about the West Coast. Um, is that um, and that's certainly what I loved about Vancouver, is that you could be I literally would be on the beach in the morning, get the bus, go up to the mountain, and then you could be on the mountain, you know, in the afternoon having a hike or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 43:55

I have to say the USA is at the bottom of my list of places. To go in North America currently.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

It's um it's yeah, it's a big show. I think there's there's so much to do in the USA. I think it is just absolutely fantastic country, but it yeah, there is those those concerns that you would have about politics and then safety when you're there. Um it certainly is something to think about.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

Yeah. It's a shame actually, because I do I do have family in Colorado.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Um near Denver.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

Denver, yep.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

Um but yeah, like I said, I just think I think I think like Colorado, I think you'd really be you'd be okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

Denver's a fantastic city as well. Yeah, you should go visit your family.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

I probably I really should. They've lived in different parts of America like my whole life, basically, and I've never been over there.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

And Denver's really a very interesting one as well, because actually there's quite a lot you can do from Denver. So like if you were gonna do Denver, you could go to Yellowstone. Um I actually flew into Denver and out of Denver, and we actually went down to the far as the Grand Canyon.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

Wow, you know, like So it's quite like I guess central.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

Yeah, it's pretty central, and I think from Denver you can very quickly get in downstone to Utah. So in Utah you're gonna go to like Moab, go to Arches, and we was like keep going. We were gonna go, we were gonna go north to Yellowstone. Um, but we went too early in the season, and there's a one particular part um pass that you have to um go through to get there. Um and it depends on when the snow clears and the snow hadn't cleared, so we'd put this camper van and we were like they had this entire plan that we were gonna go to Yellowstone and we were like, right, we've got to go somewhere else now. So we went, we went, carried on into Utah and went south instead, and then yeah, we went down through um Bryce and Zion, Grand Canyon and and Monument Valley and back up. So yeah. Wow, yeah, that sounds amazing.

SPEAKER_04 45:35

I think that would be my next trip. Having done the Yellowstone one like the few weeks ago with the going through Moab and up and round, I think I would do like Denver, because Denver's great, and as you rightly say, there's so many things you can do out from there, and then go like across and down because we went to Salt Lake, and from Salt Lake, it was five hours to Jackson Hole, Wyoming the one way, and five hours to Vegas the other way. And I was like, that would be a funny. So, like, spend like a good few days in Vegas and then carry on with my nice hikes and nature and go into the juxtaposed with the chaos.

SPEAKER_01 46:05

Yeah, I think this looks nice because there's so many national parks you can do in that as well. Because you do arches, canyon land, um capital reef, you can go on the way down, Bryce, Zion, then yeah, getting into Grand Canyon, um Monument Valley, Monument Valley isn't a national park, it's um indigenous um land, I think it's the Navajo, but um that's it's so like iconic, and there's so many like yeah, like really iconic American um landmarks from there.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

So um awesome. Well, I feel like we've already started the destination deep dive. But let's continue it. Let's officially open it. Um yeah, like I say, I've not been anywhere in North America, which it's a bit of a shame. Um but I know that you have been to all three parts of it. So what is your favourite part? Only one, or you'll be shocked.

SPEAKER_04 46:56

As in like Mexico, USA or Canada.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

Yeah, like a specific area of the continent.

SPEAKER_04 47:03

Although the politics are a bit diabolical. Oh, I don't know. Um probably more East Coast, okay. And probably more like the Boston, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Maine, Cape Cod all the time. Exactly. Because that's like where I would go as a kid, and like we support American football, so we'd do all of those trips and explore out from there with a car, which I think is good fun.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

That is something I would quite like to do. Like I feel like New York is always on top of everyone's list, and yeah, fine, I'll go there, but I think I'd actually rather do Boston and then do and go sort of out.

SPEAKER_04 47:40

I've done the New York, I would like to do more of New York State because I haven't really ventured further out.

SPEAKER_00 47:46

Um Gee, so you mentioned you've been to San Miami. Miami San Miami.

SPEAKER_02 47:52

San Miami San Miami, San Miami, GJ.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Yeah. Um how did you feel how did you like that?

SPEAKER_02 48:00

I I enjoyed it. It was basically it was uh it must have been around the time that the SeaWorld documentary came out. It must have been like 2014, I think. So I remember watching it on the plane on the on the way. Oh no. Um yeah, it was it was basically the time that I was in my full YouTube Tumblr era, and I was just watching everyone's vlogs, seeing all the food spots, and it was um a lot of the food we hadn't had come to the UK yet. So yeah, Cheesecake Factory was comes to my just the massive portions, like I just couldn't couldn't get over like bang for your buck, I guess. Like, yeah, it could it could feed someone for like four days.

SPEAKER_00 48:48

I feel like that has to be part of any trip though, doesn't it? Like, I mean I know like for when we go on holiday we like to go to like you know the local bakery or the but I feel like in the USA it's not you know you want to go to the big chains that we don't have here, like you want to do the Cheesecake Factory or Chili's, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:07

In and out.

SPEAKER_00 49:07

In and out.

SPEAKER_02 49:08

Taco Bell was really hard on my list at the time. Taco Bell, yeah. I remember being quite disappointed though, because I think I don't know why I was expecting more of like a sit-down kind of vibey place, and obviously it was just it was a roadside like have Taco Bell and you're gonna be running to the toilet.

SPEAKER_00 49:24

Have ha have you had Taco Bell in the USA and Taco Bell in the UK?

SPEAKER_02 49:28

Um I think I've only had the churros with the the Dolce de Lecce in the UK. The Dutch de leche put me off, I guess. Yeah, I was gonna like I kind of had my crunch wrapped supreme and was like, that's it for me. Completed it. Yeah, yeah, I I felt that's it.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

But I've only ever had the UK Taco Bell, so which apparently is doesn't compare.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

It's so sad. Yeah. So you've had both. I have had both. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:54

Because I before half of them shut down.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

Yeah. Well, I mean, I'll eat most fast food, like I'm not fussy about fast food, like other things, but Taco Bell was absolutely foul.

SPEAKER_04 50:05

Yeah, it wasn't good. It is not the the comparison is not there.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

No. Okay, interesting. So that's a bit of research we need to do then. Yeah. Go to go to Taco Bell and compare. Um cool. Yeah, I kind of I've this conversation makes me actually want to go on this trip now.

SPEAKER_04 50:23

I I like to go, you gotta go. Although the politics is grossly loud, the people don't all have those views. And I think that's very apparent. But I understand not wanting to feed the evil by you know aiding in the tourism, but I also think like it really depends on on where you go.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

You know, like the West Coast, that you're not you're not gonna feel that politics because that that isn't the politics there, and you will feel you'll feel welcomed and safe, and but you know, you might go driving through the deep south and you're gonna have a you're gonna feel a bit differently.

SPEAKER_00 50:53

But also I feel like there's also communities in every place where you would you could feel like you weren't being targeted for certain parts of yourself.

SPEAKER_01 51:06

Yeah, I think I yeah, there's certainly places in America where I have felt not safe. Um, but th I would say that kind of that that's probably the minority situation, and also it's very different. Visiting somewhere for a couple of weeks is very different from living there and having to um I would say if you're gonna go and make sure you have travel insurance, that would be uh hands on you must do that. Like I don't think there's anywhere anywhere else on earth where you'd feel quite so if you're gonna get in a medical situation where you were gonna be completely bankrupt. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:37

You forgot to you forget to bring your medications. You need one prescription, that's a lifetime of debt.

SPEAKER_01 51:41

That's £10,000. Yeah, it's a spread aspirin. We just remortgage so I can get some so yeah, top-tip book travel insurance.

SPEAKER_00 51:49

So I did suspect that Mexico might not get a lot of attention this week. So I thought we'll do Mexico for Don't Go Alone, and then I thought, what can we do for Mexico? Um I actually was thinking maybe about doing witch hunts in New England. Oh, yeah, Salem, but I thought that was a bit obvious. Um, and then I thought about how all the serial killers in America, but then I thought maybe that's a bit too much.

SPEAKER_01 52:10

A bit too dark, that's a lot. Yeah, that's like although it's fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 52:13

It is fascinating, but that's a whole different podcast.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

It's a whole whole different podcast. Tune in next podcast for serial killers in America.

SPEAKER_00 52:20

We get our true crime spin-off. Which I'm I'm here for that here. Um but no, so we're gonna go to Mexico. Um we're going to go to 2015, February 2015.

SPEAKER_01 52:32

Go back in time.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

Do you remember what you were doing in February 2015?

SPEAKER_04 52:35

Absolutely not. No, G wasn't born. I was at uni I was at uni doing my masters.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

Okay, well, I can tell you what um Raul Barrera Rodriguez was doing in 2015, February. Um, he was an archaeologist. Lovely. Um, an urban archaeologist, which I think is cool. Interesting. Yeah. Um that sounds like a great job.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

I'm gonna retrain actually. I see you later, everybody. I must have been archaeological.

SPEAKER_00 53:00

In in the olden days, when you know when they ask you what you want to be when you grow up, it was either for me a vet or an archaeologist. Okay, so we're in Mexico City. We're in there. February 2015 with our urban archaeologist Raul Barrera Rodriguez.

SPEAKER_02 53:13

What temperature is it?

SPEAKER_00 53:15

Uh I'm gonna say 18 to 22 degrees. I don't know, I'm just making that up. Um tequila. So drink the wine. Um Mexico City officials had decided to um expand part of the city behind the cathedral. Before they could do that, um, they had to contact this urban archaeologist because basically, for context, Mexico City is actually built on top of the ruins of I hope I'm saying this correctly, Tinochitlan, which was the capital of the Aztec slash Mexica Empire. Basically, during the the the conquests of the out of the Aztec Empire, the Spanish colonials would dismantle this whole city and they would either reuse the s the stone slabs or just build on top of what they'd destroyed. Um and yeah, that eventually turned into modern day Mexico City.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

That's very interesting.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

So it's kind of like a a Russian doll type city.

SPEAKER_01 54:11

It actually has a name when when you build over the it's a palimpsest.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

It's great having a geography expert on this.

SPEAKER_04 54:17

I'm learning so much geography.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

Um so before any sort of large-scale building project can go ahead in Mexico City, they have to um get urban archaeologists to do excavations on the site first.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

Is this that when they found in the UK that King Richard in a cart park?

SPEAKER_00 54:31

Yeah, essentially. Um, but I feel like that was accidental.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

How much was his pocket charging?

SPEAKER_00 54:37

Yeah, um so yeah, they have to do this so that they either don't damage anything that was there before, or in case there's like something that they don't know about and they can kind of excavate it. Um so they they gave Raul a phone call and they were like, Can you you know sort this out? Um so he dug a few pits around the area um and he started finding like you know broken pottery, you know, standard boring things, um bits of debris from the old city.

SPEAKER_01 55:05

I don't know why um in my head I'm imagining him as um Brendan Fraser and the Mummy.

SPEAKER_00 55:09

Yeah, but but Mexican.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

But Mexican Mexican Brendan Fraser and the Mummy.

SPEAKER_00 55:13

Yeah. Um and yeah, he found he eventually kind of managed to dig down to sort of the original flooring slabs of the Aztec city, and then he started discovering hundreds of fragments of human skulls.

SPEAKER_01 55:28

Oh he's cursed now. He hit a mass grave.

SPEAKER_00 55:32

So what they uncovered was a huge ceremonial area containing another Aztec word, which I'm gonna say wrong, uh Sompantli, um, which was basically a giant's rack of skulls. And the skulls were of the people who had been sacrificed.

SPEAKER_01 55:54

Oh dear. Um sacrificed in Roger Eldorado. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:00

And alongside that they found um towers constructed of skulls held together with mortar.

SPEAKER_01 56:06

This is gnarly.

SPEAKER_00 56:07

Um and also walls sort of connecting the towers, and like this rack um was the size of um a basketball court.

SPEAKER_01 56:16

That's quite a lot of skulls.

SPEAKER_00 56:18

Yeah, and obviously the rap the so the rack because it was made of wood, had kind of rotted away, but they'd found fragments of the wood, and this is sad this is disgusting, but the skulls would have these big holes cut out from each each side so that they would slide onto the wood. Like so they would all be even. Um so they could tell from the what from the state of the skulls what what this place was. Um and it was described by one researcher as evidence of a scale of human sacrifice unlike anything previously documented. Which is wild. Can you imagine a basketball court full of skulls?

SPEAKER_01 56:56

How with AI question of the day, how many skulls would it take to fill a basketball court?

SPEAKER_04 57:00

How did they know it was sacrificed? Had it not just been mass death?

SPEAKER_00 57:03

So this particular Zompantley was specifically used throughout the Aztec. Oh, okay, so it is just historically used. I guess we know culturally that they were sacrificers. Well, so that is another interesting point, which I'll get to in a second. Um basically what would happen is that these people would be sacrificed at the top of the temple, um, which coincidentally was where the cathedral was built. Oh, really? So the original temple is now where the cathedral is. Um so there'd be like hundreds of like crowds, people gathered below, and then at the top of the temple, they would sacrifice these people. So they'd basically the high priest would literally carve out this sacrifice's heart and they would sort of offer it up to the sun as an offering to their gods because they believed that it nourished them and it would sort of ensure that the sun would continue to set and rise and that the world wouldn't end, basically.

SPEAKER_04 58:04

Like who who woke up one day and went, you know, the sun's been right like rising and setting consistently for the entirety of our life? Let's sacrifice people to make sure it keeps doing that.

SPEAKER_00 58:15

But if for the entirety of your life people have been being sacrificed, oh no, no, but like but what I'm saying is there had to be one guy, yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_04 58:24

One guy one day woke up and went, we need to sacrifice people to keep the sun rising and setting.

SPEAKER_01 58:29

I mean, I can only say that I'm just glad as a cultural, you know, we've moved past um human sacrifice as a scientific method.

SPEAKER_00 58:35

Yeah, so they would, yeah, like you say, they would offer the heart up, they would sacrifice, um, they would offer you nourish the god with the heart, and then they would very carefully decapitate the body. Now we're being careful, and then they would they would skin the skull um and then sort of prepare it with the holes in the back of the head and then slot it on these wooden racks.

SPEAKER_04 59:00

Just put like Jeremy with the rest of them. Yeah, thanks, Jeremy.

SPEAKER_00 59:03

Um, and that though that that rack of skulls is basically what Raul Barrera Rodriguez and his team found.

SPEAKER_01 59:09

Um that's when you would slowly just back away and be like, Yeah, just cover that back up.

SPEAKER_04 59:14

But also it makes me laugh when someone's come along and built something on it and been like, This is just a great piece of land. Yeah, like all of this darkness underneath.

SPEAKER_00 59:22

Look at the view. Interesting though, is that so all the all up until this point throughout history, um, it was thought that the so the conquistadors, the Spanish conquistadors were saying, Oh my god, these Aztecs are sacrificing thousands and thousands of people, we must conquer them and you know, destroy them. Um, people were like, Oh, you you're just exaggerating because it kind of meets your political agenda essentially, because you know, obviously the Spanish were gonna take over Mexico, whatever they whatever was going on. Um so yeah, we historians fame like famously thought that the conquistadors were exaggerating the scale of Aztec Cuban sacrifice. Um obviously not that it didn't happen at all, like we know it happened, but we thought it didn't happen to that extent. Um but yeah, but discoveries like this and others around the world have made some historians reconsider how accurate these accounts actually may have been in the first place.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:18

Fair play. Have they kind of worked out how often they did do it? Is there a uh like has anyone looked at the skulls and said, well this one was gone on the June and this one or is it just too gone?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:29

The amount of them probably mean would have meant it was a fairly regular account. Quite inconsistent. Um and actually another thing that they learn from this particular zompantly um is that so uh they originally thought that sacrifices were mainly um like kind of prisoners of war or captured warriors as a way, I guess, to just get rid of them. Um but actually when they examined these skulls closely and the scientists kind of analysed them, they found out that there were a lot of women and children too that were being sacrificed. Um which again is something that we didn't think was happening. So I wonder if you got picked.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:10

Do you just put your name in the Gothic Hunger game?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:13

So but like apparently, like it was it was an honour, a great honour to be able to. Like people would have been like, yeah, but they lived like kings for like the weeks up until the moment that they were sacrificed. Um yeah, wild.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:26

That's insane. That's just the fact that they would have started off finding like the one skull and then just expanded, expanded until it was the size. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:36

How cool absolutely terrifying. Yeah, that that is don't go alone this week. Don't go alone. Scared? Terrified. Um shall we move on to the quiz for next week? Quiz! Yeah, destination unknown.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:48

Destination copyrighted now.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:55

No, no, end it with enough time.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:57

Yeah, we get 10 seconds for free.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

You know, take down.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:00

Um Right, I'd like all of you to put down your notes. So there's two points up for grabs.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:04

Two points.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:05

Whoever gets it first gets the two points. If Jenny gets it, no one gets the points.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:08

Okay. Ooh.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:09

You'll you'll be savage episode this week.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:12

I think this is actually quite a difficult one. Okay. But Ali's got a degree in geography, so she might feel free-roll. No. Oh, I'm nervous. Um this country generates. I suppose, yeah, last week actually I did very well for that. Yeah. This country generates almost all of its electricity from renewable energy sources.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:33

Um Germany? Oh, she's going for an out of gas. No.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:37

That is not correct.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:39

So Oh, yeah, it's not Iceland.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:42

How did you get it that quickly?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:44

Because I got a geography degree.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:45

So, yeah, 99% of Iceland's electricity comes from renewable sources. Um, mainly hydroelectric and geothermal. Um, yeah, its volcanic landscape provides abundant geothermal energy, making it the cleanest energy system, one of the cleanest energy systems in the world. Um what I liked about when I went to Iceland is that most hotels had a geothermal pool and you could just sit in it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:09

It's great. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:10

Love that. It has no native snakes, lizards, frogs, or toads. Um, apparently the cold climate and isolation just meant that they never established populations there.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:19

No snakes in Ireland.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:20

No. Iceland.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:22

I picture like a frog living there somehow. That's very cute. Icelandic little frogs.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:28

Yeah. No frogs in Iceland. No. It's weird. Yeah, and it sits directly on the mid-Atlantic ridge where the North American and Eurasian tectonic plates meet. Um at Thingvillier National Park, visitors can walk through the rift between the plates, which I feel like maybe I did, because I did definitely go to Thingville.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:44

You go to park up and then there's like a yeah, walk a walk.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:47

Like between there's like a little Yeah. I just maybe didn't realise that's what I was doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:51

You probably shouldn't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:51

Um and you can even snorkel between them.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:53

I can even snorkel between them.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:55

Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:56

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:56

Yeah, we're doing Iceland next time, which I'm very I loved Iceland. Excited. Have you been to Iceland?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:00

I've never been, no, I've never been. Sure. It's just us.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:05

It's goodbye from me.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:06

And it's goodbye from me.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:08

And me as well. And me too.