Sustainability Special with Travel Forward

This week we’re doing something a little different. Aaron and Allie are joined by Katie and Rebecca from Travel Forward to talk about the future of travel, the challenges facing some of our favourite destinations, and the small changes travellers can make to have a positive impact without giving up the holidays they love.

We discuss everything from overtourism and extreme weather to supporting local communities, hear about the projects Travel Forward is working on around the world, and put our guests to the test with a sustainability quiz to see just how well they know the future of travel.

In this episode:

Travel State of Mind — The biggest sustainability challenges facing travel today, and practical ways travellers can reduce their impact.

Travel Forward Deep Dive — Katie and Rebecca explain the work Travel Forward is doing and how Holiday Extras customers have helped support projects around the world.

The Travel Forward Quiz — How much of the world’s coastline, ski resorts and cities could be transformed by climate change, and what can travellers do about it?

Takeaway — One simple thing every traveller can do to help protect the places they love.

https://www.holidayextras.com/green-on-the-go/the-travel-foundation.html

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Well, hello and welcome to the Departure Lounge. It feels very familiar. Where we talk nonsense about travel and get you holiday ready. I'm Aaron and this is our first special episode.

SPEAKER_04 0:12

Very special episode.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

How exciting.

SPEAKER_04 0:14

I'm very excited.

SPEAKER_02 0:15

I have Ali with me today.

SPEAKER_04 0:16

How are you? I'm good, thank you. Yeah, excited to be here. Um I had to say that we usually talk nonsense, but this time I feel like we're gonna you know go a bit more serious. Very serious.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Very serious. Yeah. Um yes, and also joining me today, we've got our um sustainability experts from the Travel Forward, uh, Katie and Rebecca. Um, how are you both?

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Very well, thank you. Yeah, delighted to be here.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Yeah, really good. Yeah, it's great to be here today.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Awesome. Um, yeah, so over the past year or so, Holiday Extras customers have raised around 40k um for travel forward. Um, can you tell us a bit more about sort of what travel forward is and and your mission and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_03 0:54

So, Travel Forward is a UK charity. Um, we were set up in 2003 by the UK um outbound tour operators at that time who recognised that they were taking customers to lots of places around the world where those customers had impacts, and those impacts can be negative or positive. And so they wanted to create um a way of tackling those impacts of increasing the positive benefits of tourism, and so we were set up as that charity in 2003, as the travel foundation at the time. Um, we've recently rebranded um to travel forward, as you mentioned, um, with support from the industry, including holiday extras, that we're really grateful for. Um really to um not just change the name, it wasn't just about the name, but it was about reflecting our mission of moving to a better model for tourism that that serves um those people and places that we that we visit. Um so our strapline is the well-being of destinations, which I really like because it really it's all about the places we go to, it's all about those places thriving for the future and how we can play our part in that.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Awesome. It's such a such a nice take as well, because I do I feel like there's a lot of negative sentiment about tourism these days that you get in the news and over tourism in some of the biggest destinations. So it's nice to to talk about the positive impacts that travel can have on destinations instead. Um, so yeah, let's just jump straight into travel state of mind, which is where we talk about the latest travel um news, the biggest issues in the world, and yeah, there's a lot going on. Um so obviously we've just come out of one of the worst heat waves I think ever experienced.

SPEAKER_04 2:26

Fan sales are through the roof, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

Um which came up a few weeks after another heat wave that um was probably the worst one we've ever had to live through, and then we're getting another one.

SPEAKER_04 2:37

That's it, the same way this way for the weekend.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Love it. Um so yeah, what what would you say are the biggest issues sort of facing the travel industry today? Um, and is there any advice you can give to travellers who maybe want to have less of an impact on their destination or more of a positive impact instead?

SPEAKER_03 2:56

Sure. So just thinking about the big issues um for me, I think the ones that we really support the industry to to tackle at travel forward are two main issues. The first one is climate change and the impacts of climate change. So as you've mentioned, you know, we're experiencing that here in a way that perhaps we haven't for quite some time. And and you know, but places that we visit, um this can be a you know a regular experience. And so we are seeing the impacts of climate change around the world. We're seeing it on the destinations that we love to visit, you know, particularly um island destinations, for example, that are very dependent on tourism and need visitors but are also impacted by um the emissions from um from our trips. So it's that balance of how do we tackle um climate change while still um supporting those destinations. Um and the other question that we we really um try and uh address is the the pressures on destinations, um things we're seeing, things like overtourism, we're seeing resident protests in in some places around the world, and sometimes that can be because those benefits of tourism that we really believe can be generated are not shared as fairly as they might be or um as as we might expect them to be, um, but we know they can be um shared more fairly among destination communities. So again, we work with the industry in places to to try and support that to happen.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

So, yeah, I guess in terms of tips for travellers um when they're on holiday, um, to build in, uh build on from what Bexa said, I think um one of my top tips would be to really continue to act as you do at home. Um I think there's a tendency when people go on holiday to sort of leave those good behaviours, um, you know, they kind of just go out the window. Go crazy. Um, particularly in terms of you know, resources use and things like that. So keeping lights on, letting, you know, using loads of water. So I think just kind of continuing to be mindful. Um, and you know, when you leave buildings, turn or leave hotel rooms, turn the air con off, um, turn lights off, all those basic things. Um, you know, even towels, everyone's seen signs about tower use in in hotels. But I think sometimes, you know, at home you don't use 10 towels a day and leave them all over the floor. So it's just kind of being mindful. Um, lots of the destinations that you know we love to visit here in the height of summer really um being affected by water shortages and things like that. So, um, and water needs to be shared among tourists, but also the local communities that live there. So it's just you know, really being mindful about those resources that you're using on holiday, which doesn't mean a big shift, it generally just means doing what you normally do at home, so it's not um not a big change. Um, and then in addition to that, I would say um kind of really taking time to find local places. Um, so you know, when we go away nowadays, it's easy to see the same kind of global brands are everywhere, you can't get away from them. Um, but you know, to go and have lunch in somewhere like that is not going to be a different experience to you have to what you have at home. So I think um really finding the time to find local family-run places not only spreads more um benefits from tourism and wealth in the local communities, but also really enhances your experience. Uh, and they're often the most memorable bits you have on holiday, is finding that tiny restaurant with the most amazing pasta you've ever tasted and talking to the old grandma. Um, so you know, I think really taking time to do that would be a big recommendation, and that's in terms of local trips and experiences as well, and food, local markets for souvenirs. Um, souvenirs, there you go. Yeah. We're just discussing my love of a gift shop.

SPEAKER_04 6:19

I love a local market. Yeah, that's it. Come home with all the souvenirs.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Yeah, too many, yeah. And then public transport. So that's another thing. You know, I know sometimes people need to hire cars, but if you don't, just really trying to look at where you can walk or cycle again, that can be a really great experience. And especially in cities, you know, you don't, it's more stressful to be driving around. So anything you can do to kind of use public transport, particularly in Europe, we're really lucky it's it's often cheaper, it's it's you know more efficient, um, and it's you know emitting less emissions. And I guess lastly, uh, if you can, I know it's not possible for everyone, but um, looking to maybe go uh off season um and that can be really beneficial. Again, it can kind of give you a better experience because you're avoiding the crowds, um, it can be cheaper, um, it can be you know much more kind of relaxed um holiday. Um, but also it means that the the kind of spread of tourism is spread more evenly throughout the year for local communities rather than being kind of you know saturated in you know really short periods. Um, and that goes again for looking at different sites beyond, you know, not the main cathedral or waterfall that everyone goes to, but again, maybe talking to locals, maybe talking to people in your accommodation and finding out where locals like to see and visit. And so, again, it's kind of just dispersing crowds from the main sites, um, giving other small businesses and attractions, you know, a share of the benefits as well. And also, I know that holiday extras have a good trip index that you've uh developed. So I would definitely recommend people check that out for um to really understand the impacts in different destinations and tips and advice about what travellers can do before going there. So awesome. Yeah, that's a great tip.

SPEAKER_04 7:58

She's plugging it on maybe have to. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, so it's a trip index. I think one of the one of the things we have in there is a sustainability index. So, yeah, so you can have a look and see what countries are are topping on sustainability and animal welfare, those sorts of things. I think there's some some really great tips there. I think it's interesting you saying about acting like you do at home. Do you feel like where the UK is experiencing kind of more of this the heat waves and that actually where climate change is coming closer to home, do you think people will be more mindful actually? You know, we see how it affects us here now. We'd be more mindful when people travel abroad, perhaps, of it.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Yeah, I mean, I really hope so, and that hopefully might be a positive take on what's happening. Um yeah, it's got to be something positive, isn't it? Um but also, I mean, now in the southeast there's a host pipe band. So, as you said, these restrictions are coming closer to home, so people are going to be more aware and in tune. Um, I think another big thing is not necessarily thinking about like drastic changes, but I think um a lot of what we do working with businesses is kind of adapting to climate, so that might be as simple as creating more shaded areas. It doesn't have to be air con units, but how can you create more shaded areas in your garden in your you know, holiday villa or you know, so kind of simple things.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

I think the point you made about sort of seeing local businesses and stuff is a hundred percent agree with that. Like we we were in Greece the week before last, um and we did do the all-inclusive thing. Um, but my partner is is Greek, who I went with, um, and he always makes a point of talking to the hotel staff and being like, where can we get decent coffee? Yeah, you know, and where's the best bakery? Um, because he we he always has to get the what do they call it? The Fredo Espresso. Oh I don't know. Coffee. Oh yeah, yeah. Like the ice like really sweet. Oh, it's so good. And like you can't literally get it anywhere else, like apart from in Greece, and the hotels never seem to do it because it's I feel like it's a thing that the locals love and it hasn't really caught caught on with the tourists, but hot tip, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, we went, you know, just about a 10-minute walk, you know, into the town, found this coffee shop, got the Fredo Espresso, and then there was a nice bakery next door, so we got like they just do the most amazing like cream cakes and stuff, and like we wouldn't have got that if we just stayed in the hotel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:11

Um and it's those experiences that stick with you, isn't it? Like the big sites, yes, we all see those and they're amazing, but it's those quiet moments or those unexpected little things that you happen upon or you discover or you chat to somebody that really stay with you, and those are the stories that you bring back from the holidays.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

And then we went into the local supermarket, bought some cat food, and then just fed all the cats that we'd found.

SPEAKER_04 10:32

Um the local supermarket. Yeah. Supermarket tourism.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Everyone's yeah, because we were in Zanti, so like everyone was going out at night to get like, you know, to get on it and have like, you know, a nice night out. We were walking down the country roads finding cats to feed. Like it's interesting, too.

SPEAKER_04 10:47

With with the with the all-inclusive in in Greece, because we we were looking to book in the one that we've gone to the past few years. It's a lovely resort, but actually, all you do is stay on the resort. There's very little opportunities for you in in that area to to leave the resort and have those kind of authentic experiences. And so when we're thinking about it, do we want to go again? Actually, do I want to go somewhere where I can get a more authentic experience, lead the resort? Because then when I'm there, I'm just thinking, you know, we've this this resort has taken over this lovely part of Greece that now locals don't get to enjoy, they don't have access to the beach anymore. So it's definitely um yeah, you know, we can go there and have a lovely time for a week or that, and then you think, oh, actually, how has it impacted the people around?

SPEAKER_02 11:26

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Well, a really weak easy way of doing that is like you said, just getting out and about a bit more and talking to staff, I think, is really invaluable as well.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

Yeah, definitely. Because I feel like they they want you to go to these places, don't they? They kind of want you to like, I mean, yeah, fine, they kind of want you to stay at the hotel as well, but like, you know, I don't want to stay at an all-inclusive hotel for a week and not leave.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

Like it's just and they know the places and have the top tips because they're the locals who live there all the time.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

So yeah, we um actually I think Jenny and I uh and some other people in the team, we were in Parma in when was that, April? Um yeah, and we were trying to have sort of as sustainable a trip as possible. Um and actually I found it was quite easy. Um, at least in Parma, obviously it guess depends on where you're going, I suppose. But yeah, there were loads of like really cool restaurants that were kind of serving like local food, lots of vegetarian and vegan stuff. But I mean, even like all of the kind of meat, like there was lots of local lamb and steak. Part of that trip we were there to race an Olympic windsurfer um across the island.

SPEAKER_04 12:30

As you do, yeah, just you know, casual, casual Tuesdays, very yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

Um, but so part of that was so obviously the the windsurfer windsurfed to to the cathedral with sustainable in Parma, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:42

Like wind powered, you know, um no fossil fuels there.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

And we um had to race him on a bus. Um electric bus. Yeah, all the buses. Well, I don't know if it all of them are, but most of the buses in in Mallorca are electric, so yeah, that was great. Um any guesses who won that race?

SPEAKER_03 13:02

I'm gonna back the winter, yeah. I was gonna say the winter.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

It was surprisingly very close. Well, it was he he he won. Um I think the main issue for him was he got from where we were staying to Palmer in about 10 minutes, but actually finding somewhere to get out of the water um was the struggle.

SPEAKER_04 13:21

Um is this gonna be like our top ten top sustainable tip is uh actually just a windsurf? Yes, everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Exactly. Wind power is the way forward. But yeah, um but like the bus was so easy, like to be fair.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Like we just you know, I feel like a lot of these sort of tourist-oriented places, they're so well set up, aren't they? Yeah, exactly. And I think you're right, you know, you can find sort of local places to eat and maybe even make that, you know, a bit of a holiday mission to you know, I would try a different dish every day or you know, try a different local shop for each day and try a different way of getting around, you know, you can always make that part of the fun of the holiday.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

Yeah, I feel like that's yeah, like you say, it's it's part of the fun. It's why you go, right? Yeah, it's like I hate when you go somewhere and it's like there's always like an Irish pub or something like that. And you're like, why have I come all the way to Greece to go to an Irish pub?

SPEAKER_04 14:16

Didn't didn't Greg's just open in Tenerife and Weatherspoons is now in like Alicante.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Alicante, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:21

Right. That's it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Wild. Although I am interested to try the the Spanish um the Spanish slice. Spanish oh is that what is that the Greg's Spanish special?

SPEAKER_04 14:30

That's actually quite hard to say. The Greg's Spanish special.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Yeah. I don't know if it is I don't know what's in it, but no, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 14:36

I'll try it. Chorizo.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

Um yeah, probably it's like a chorizo roll.

SPEAKER_04 14:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

Actually, I don't like it.

SPEAKER_04 14:41

Does that sound good, but we're we're not doing Greg's, okay? No, no Greg's local experiences only, don't think Greg's Spanish for Greg's. No, don't do it. Yeah, I won't.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

I'll probably offend someone. Um right, so let's do our travel in brackets forward deep dive. Although that doesn't work because it's the destination deep dive. It is, but it's the travel forward deep dive because we're not at a destination, we're just talking about travel forward this week. Um, this is where we would normally do a d a deep dive into the destination we're talking about, but I thought we'd do a deep dive into travel forward instead. Um, so what are sort of some of the kind of projects that you're working on right now, or some of the kind of bigger ones that you've worked on in the past?

SPEAKER_00 15:21

And as we've talked a lot about today, I think one of the key issues we're working on at the moment is climate change. Yeah. Um, because you know, as as we've talked about already, climate change is already impacting the destinations we're visiting, wildfires, extreme weather, storms, this kind of thing, you know, even now in the UK, as we've just had in the last month. Um, but also tourism contributes to climate change. So tourism, you know, with all the travel, is a huge emitter of carbon emissions, but also, you know, um accommodation um emissions, all of those things related. Um, so yeah, that's why it's a big part of the work that we do. Um, so we've been working over the past few years a lot with tourism destinations and small businesses on climate action planning, um, which is essentially um supporting them uh with the tools to develop a roadmap to kind of better be better prepared for climate change. Um, one thing we've done over the last few years is develop a course called Destination Climate Champions with support from Expedia Group, and that course is an online course that people can access as and when they want, and it's really kind of um giving them a know-how and what they need to know about climate change, but really what it means for them and their destination, what the impacts might be, how they can prepare, and also things like how they can communicate better with um visitors to encourage more sustainable behaviours when people are travelling. Another project we've got going at the moment is called Climate Risk Scan, and that is essentially developing it's a sort of a big um framework that will allow destinations to get a score, um, which is their sort of climate risk score, which is going to show how sort of vulnerable or exposed they are to climate change. Um, and again, you know, really, really to enable them to better prepare and for what they can do to adapt as well. Um, and for that, we're working with quite a few different um pilot destinations, um, so split between some small islands and mountain sort of ski destinations. So we're working, one is like Koh Samui, for example, in Thailand. Um, obviously the impacts of climate change there are very different. In Ireland, it's gonna be rising sea levels, um, you know, storms. Uh, and then in mountain destinations, so one uh in Europe is the Dolomites in Italy, they're gonna be facing things like um snow melt. Um, so again, it's it's kind of enabling them to understand what those impacts might be over the next 50 years, when they're gonna happen, and what they can do to adapt and mitigate those impacts. So for um mountain destinations, it might be you know looking at how they can extend their tourism offering more throughout the summer season, you know, with things like hiking, um rafting. Um, so then you know, it's sort of cushioning the blow that if the ski season gets shortened, local people and communities are still benefiting from tourism more throughout the year. And then, yeah, with climate action planning, we've been working a lot with countries, as I said, to develop these plans. Um over the past year or so, the Canaries is a big um uh country, not country, destination we've been working with, and we've actually done individual climate action plans with almost all of the Canary Islands now. Um, so yeah, I think that's I'm sort of talking from all of our climate work, but maybe I'll hand over to Bex and you can talk a bit more broadly and show the other work. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

Sure. Um, yes, the other aspect I guess we work a lot on is what we would call destination stewardship. So, how do we manage tourism in a place that is really driven by the needs and priorities of that place? So we start with the place and then we think about tourism's role in that. So um one example of that um that we've just finished um uh recently is um working with two destinations in northern Spain, so Asturias and Galicia, um two regions in northern Spain, who which are seeing actually increased visitors um for many reasons, not least because it's beautiful and it's natural and wonderful sites and um food and culture, um, but also partly because of the impacts of climate affecting visitor patterns, and so it's cooler there in the summer than it is perhaps in other parts of Europe. So they're seeing a you know a growth in interest. And um, so with them, we've been working um as we do with other destinations to think about the future of tourism. So, not just about what's happening right now, but what would happen, you know, if if if visitors' in uh numbers increase, how are we going to manage that in a way that still protects the beauty that people are coming to see? Um so thinking about signals around you know, how are residents feeling about tourism now? How might they feel if things change? Um, yeah, what and what role do um other um actors in the tourism system have. So we had a workshop with not just the destinations themselves, but tour operators who take visitors there. We had some um travel writers who, you know, tell the stories of those destinations. So they have a really important role to play as well in how they influence the where visitors go, when, you know, thinking about different seasons of the year that people can discover those places. So really practical, kind of thinking through with the destinations. You know, you love your place, we love to visit visit it. How can we um look to the future and what what vision do you have for your place and and how can tourism play the best part it can in that?

SPEAKER_04 20:33

That's interesting, obviously, with it with it being northern Spain. Do you feel like obviously there's been a lot in the um kind of the press like like Barcelona and that where there's there's that really anti-tourism sentiment, obviously, where it's been so so visited. Um, do you feel like that kind of people are trickling out from there now and are kind of expanding where they go in Spain? And um is that something as well, potentially?

SPEAKER_03 20:54

Potentially, yeah. I think you know, Spain is is hugely popular from the UK, obviously. And there's nothing that's always a favourite destination, isn't it? It's wonderful, and you know, there's so many places and um to visit, and I think you know they are keen um to encourage people to explore, you know, other parts of Spain as well. You know, the interior of Spain has some amazing, beautiful hillside towns and wonderful wine and all those places that are. Oh, I'm sorry. Um so yeah, and you know, uh as do as do you know so much of Europe. But yeah, I think they are you know they are wanting to yeah, to to see visitors um come and enjoy it in a way that also protects what they've come to see as well, you know, and those sort of rural businesses that can still benefit from tourism and and yeah, share those benefits.

SPEAKER_04 21:38

It's gonna be like a double-edged sword tourism, I guess, because yeah, I'm sure it brings kind of um new kind of um wealth to the area or um i income is the word I'm thinking I'm looking for. But yeah, I guess there's so many then pressures it also brings. Yeah. It must be hard to weigh out the how much do you kind of sacrifice and what do you stand to gain by you know having tourist tourism. Yeah. I think so. And I think.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

it's bringing residents into that conversation early as well. You know, often these problems, it's a bit like a boiling pot where you only see it once it's really boiling and actually if you can if you can engage with residents and understand what their concerns and needs and priorities are early on and what what they would like to see from tourism and then you know it's developed in a way that that suits the place. Yeah I think that you know that's sorry a positive approach.

SPEAKER_04 22:22

No, I think that's interesting because obviously where where we are obviously um we're based in Folkestone and um it's interesting because I we're seeing a lot more tourism here now and you can see that there's actually the residents there is a backlash against it because it's kind of people coming in and you know they leave a lot of litter and and that yeah one it's you know it's fantastic there are local businesses that you know these people support and you know so it's like yes please please come but when you're here please please be respectful yeah people live here yes um yeah please leave it in a nice in a nice way you're saying about you know behaving like you would at home yeah exactly that you know it's like yeah great the sunny sands is popular on TikTok and it's lovely to see you know new new faces in the town but yeah you know please take your litter with you.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

I think as well with the kind of overcrowding and stuff it's also it's not great as a tourist if you're somewhere and it's just completely packed and there's litter everywhere because the bins are overflowing you know so I think you know for for both sides it makes sense to you know enable this better planning at an earlier stage as Bex was saying so that you don't get to where the pot's boiling over um when you get there. So nobody's happy. Yeah exactly yeah because it doesn't give you a good experience either as a as a tourist.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

So it wouldn't really be the departure lounge even though we're only two episodes in three episodes in three episodes yeah okay but um yeah it wouldn't be the departure lounge without some kind of challenge it has to be some challenge quiz something yeah but I will just preface it and say that there is no point up for grabs for you because Jean's not here so it wouldn't be fair.

SPEAKER_04 23:45

Advantage I thought I was going to get the home fill advantage no I mean you're already in the lead anyway.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

But I've got I've put a little quiz together which like you are actually at a disadvantage because I've taken these stats from your website. Oh so no pressure yeah um yeah so let's just jump straight in with question one of three um what percentage of Caribbean beaches could disappear by 2050 um actually it's it's multiple choice waiting for the answer um a 10% B 25% C 50% or D 75% I'm not gonna cheat I'm not gonna cheat um I'm gonna guess um 25% 25% okay that's my that's my guess okay any any challenges to to 25% 50% 50% I might go with 50. That is the correct answer um I'm I'm upset I've not I've not got the question right and also there it's an it's a worse outcome than I think that is crazy that is yeah that's quite terrifying actually to think especially because you know the Caribbean is famous for beaches to lose half of them yeah in what 25 years yeah um okay question two how many cities could face regular extreme heat by 2050 A 100 B 250 C 500 or D nearly 1000 I really hope that's not the answer um what do you reckon?

SPEAKER_04 25:26

Um I'm gonna go C.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

500 500?

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Is this globally? Uh I guess yeah yeah I think it could be the thousands but I'm not I'm gonna go five hundred as well. So come join me with the 500 guests.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

Okay it is actually nearly 1000 which is that's a horrifying thought um I can't think of a worse place to be other than a city in a heat wave.

SPEAKER_04 25:51

Yeah that's it when they see London in a heat wave no thank you.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Yeah no thanks I'll just I need to be near water um and this actually touches on what we were talking about a bit earlier by um about the the Dolomites um how many European ski resorts could become unviable by 2050 a one in 10 B one in four C one in two or D three in four I don't know why I did that and not just percentages.

SPEAKER_04 26:20

So I'm trying to do like the mental math now I'll do I'll go through those again yeah I'm gonna go for one in four.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

One in four could become unviable by 2050 so that's B what what do you reckon?

SPEAKER_03 26:33

I think I'd agree yeah one in four I think it might be more maybe I think that by 2050 yeah okay yeah let's have a look it is C one in two which is half I believe according to my maths um which is crazy um but I suppose it depends what you mean by unvible I guess means they can't be skiable but like you were saying you know there are other things to do but we were definitely seeing I was in the Alps last summer and I it was somewhere I'd been actually as a student many many years ago and I could see that they were investing in um the infrastructure much higher up really than they had been I could see the place that I'd be moved up the mountain was sort of a bit not run down but hadn't been invested in as much as you know that all the newer builds were much further up. So there's already that happen you know you can see that happening there responding to those yeah those shifts that was so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

And it's interesting I think when you think climate change it's so easy just to think about rising sea levels and that being the the beach destinations and like you were saying about mountains like oh my god of course like it hadn't even really considered that and yeah you know like all the glaciers that are retreating and you know those all those also in lots of um ski destinations they're using fake snow machines anyway already to kind of prop up the season but actually the energy involved to use those machines and the temperatures the warmer the temperature goes it's harder and harder to rise those machines as well so even those methods are kind of going to be compounding the problem it's like 22 going to actually not work when the temperature gets to a certain degree warmer. So yeah it's um yeah it's difficult. But I think um I did something at Dollar mites last year in um a workshop there and actually for some of the research I think Chamonix now actually has more visitors in the summer than it does in the winter. Oh really because they've really boosted their kind of um throughout the year offerings with loads of different events like um BMXing things like that. So yeah they I think for the first time in the last few years they've had more visitors in the summer months than than winter. So that's almost like a complete flip yeah as to what they used to be known for.

SPEAKER_03 28:32

So yeah and they can use some of the infrastructure so exactly the same I was seeing in the Alps you know you can take mountain bikes on the um cable cars for example so you know they can use those same and some of the runs they could use um for walking or or cycling or you know so adaptation is where we are I think you know having to respond to those changes.

SPEAKER_04 28:51

I think our other co-host who isn't here today is we didn't have enough chairs. Gee, she um she just got back from Switzerland I think she was saying there was a like a downhill like run like ride thing that oh like a road an alpine roller coach thing.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Yeah filling everything yeah she had go-karts and things like that I went on with my son last last summer don't yeah yeah so it's definitely other things that you can do that yeah yeah I think I suppose as well like with like you were saying about you know the popular beach destinations heating up in summer I guess maybe that's putting people off as well and like a mountain destination like the Dolomites or the Alps is I would assume a bit cooler than than the beaches. It's definitely something I would be interested in doing because I I'm no good in the heat and not to end on a bit of a downer.

SPEAKER_04 29:37

No we don't want to end on a downer we want to end on some some positive some positive actionable positive actionable things.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

Things if there's one thing that someone could take away what would you like it to be or what would you take away?

SPEAKER_00 29:47

I think for me it would be the like finding out the local experiences because that's what I love to do on holiday those unique and authentic things that you can't do in this country. So that would be my sort of top tip and top recommendation and it's beneficial for the local communities as well.

SPEAKER_03 30:00

So yeah I think similarly for me and also um traveling slowly as well I think you know slow travel is definitely a a theme that we're seeing but it is it is brilliant because that is when you have those you know those local experiences because you take the time to explore you know if we're rushing from big site to big site you know hotspot to hotspot we're missing actually what those places are all about you know we're missing those chats with local people and and happening upon you know a little cafe with the coffee like you mentioned you know I think it's giving ourselves time to really absorb the place.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

Like get properly immersed in it.

SPEAKER_04 30:34

Exactly exactly um anything from you Ali yeah I love that you know I think you you you could feel like you come away for a conversation like this and it really be oh you shouldn't be going abroad or don't don't travel but actually it's not it's about traveling but more authentic travel and actually better experiences you're you know by slowing down and and doing all those things you're actually gonna have a better holiday anyway and come out with much richer experiences. So definitely it's great. It's and and like you said you don't want you don't want tourism to collapse in those places because a lot of people rely on it. You know that's their livelihoods.

SPEAKER_02 31:05

Exactly yeah I think yeah like you say it just makes it more enjoyable for everyone involved.

SPEAKER_04 31:10

Yeah I think I think we could all do with slowing down yeah looking for authentic experiences and and connecting with locals and people I think that's what we need in humanity in general at the moment so yes very see I told you it was gonna be a serious episode.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

Yeah very very serious too serious um cool well I think that's pretty much everything I wanted to cover.

SPEAKER_04 31:28

Yeah is there anything else you think we should no thank you so much for for taking the time to join with us and the fantastic work you do and hopefully we can continue supporting you guys and the destinations that we all love. Thank you thank you thanks so much also for the fundraising that you've got to thank you to our customers that continue to to fundraise for travel forward and hopefully gives a better idea now of actually what that money is is going towards and gonna bring in that home.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Yeah we'll um we'll chuck a link somewhere we'll chuck a link somewhere yeah yeah yeah yeah um if people want to either find out more or or donate you know um yeah please please do support you guys cool thank you very much thank you thank you and that that's it that's it it's a wrap cut the cameras